Indeterminate tomatoes can be grown as perennial tomatoes |
There
are many thousand different types of tomato, I am not exaggerating
here, probably over twenty thousand recognised varieties world wide with a
lot more being developed (by home growers such as myself as well as Government breeding programs) each year and a lot becoming extinct each
year. In the supermarkets we probably have access to half a dozen or
so, by growing heirlooms we have easy access to several hundred
varieties of all kinds of shapes/sizes/colours. By growing heirlooms it
is simple to save seed of the best varieties each year. Of the many
varieties of tomato that we have the easiest access to they can be
roughly divided into two groups: determinate and indeterminate.
Determinate
tomatoes fruit pretty much all at once, then they tend to die, they are
most easily grown as annuals. They produce flowers at their terminal bud, after they flower that branch can not produce more leaves and stems. These are great if you want all of your
crop to harvest once, they are great for large scale farmers who only want to harvest once, as well as people
who are into home preserving. If you are planning on making paste or sauce
then you probably want a determinate variety, there are several
incredibly old and delicious heirloom varieties that are determinate. I
don't grow many of these, but I do grow a few, they serve their purpose
well. Some places claim determinate tomatoes are short and do not require staking, this is not always the case, please ignore anyone who makes such claims and stop buying seeds from them.
Indeterminate
tomatoes can fruit over a long period, they keep growing as long as you
protect the plant, they can be grown as perennial tomatoes if grown without frost. They grow flowers from a side bud, not the terminal bud. These
are great if you want a few tomatoes each day or every few days, for
many weeks/months on end. Most varieties of tomato grown at home tend
to be indeterminate, most heirlooms tend to be indeterminate (but there
are some determinate ones too). Some of these plants can grow massive
while others can be rather compact. Even though indeterminate tomatoes
are perennial tomatoes they still tend to be grown as annuals. Almost all indeterminate tomatoes are perennial tomatoes, no need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on "perennial tomato" seeds now. Some places claim that indeterminate tomatoes are tall and require staking, this is not always the case, please ignore anyone who makes such claims and stop buying seeds from them.
Perennial Tomatoes
Many
varieties of indeterminate tomato are a short lived perennial if grown in a warm
climate, which is great if you happen to live in a warm climate.
Sometimes they can survive for several years but the productivity often
drops off after the first year or two.
I live in a frosty climate and have often wanted to grow the same tomato year after year, not just save seed, but keep the same plant going. Even if you live in a frosty climate it is possible to over winter plants. They probably won't produce a lot of fruit over winter (unless they are parthenocarpic), they will continue to flower but often the nights are too cool for fruit set, as soon as the weather is warm enough they will be ready and will ripen some early fruit for you. This is a great way to get your plants to set fruit a few weeks to a few months earlier than from seed.
Each
year I overwinter some tomato plants. Sometimes I do it because I am
running low on seed, sometimes I do it because the plant was amazing and
I want another season out of it, sometimes I do it because I am
developing a new variety and would like to back cross its progeny with
it to lock in a certain desirable trait. Plants that are overwintered tend to
crop a lot earlier and be more resilient than seedlings of the same
variety. Sometimes I overwinter a plant to help get an early crop and
beat the extreme weather that we often get.I live in a frosty climate and have often wanted to grow the same tomato year after year, not just save seed, but keep the same plant going. Even if you live in a frosty climate it is possible to over winter plants. They probably won't produce a lot of fruit over winter (unless they are parthenocarpic), they will continue to flower but often the nights are too cool for fruit set, as soon as the weather is warm enough they will be ready and will ripen some early fruit for you. This is a great way to get your plants to set fruit a few weeks to a few months earlier than from seed.
Yellow Pear tomatoes are simple to grow as perennials |
How to overwinter an indeterminate tomato
This is one of those things that depends on a lot of different factors, mostly it depends on what you want to do and in which climate you are growing tomatoes. You may wish to put up a shade cloth structure or something to protect a plant growing in the soil. You may grow a plant in a pot that can be moved to somewhere safe. You may live somewhere that the plants can be left as they are or just mulched carefully. I take cuttings and overwinter these.
I take a cutting late in the season from the plant that I want to overwinter. I use indeterminate varieties, while it is possible to use a determinate variety it is far more difficult as timing has to be just right and sometimes cuttings have to be taken throughout winter to prevent flowering. Remember, if a determinate tomato flowers it will not grow any more or be able to produce new leaves or new sets of flowers.
The cutting will be genetically identical to the original plant, it is essentially the same plant. I remove any flowers, remove the lower leaf or few leaves as they do not cope under water, then put the cutting into a glass of water. The part I cut needs to be under water, the leaves need to be above the water, very simple. You could plant the cutting directly into soil at this point instead of using water but I like to see the roots first so I use a glass of water.
Tomato cutting, ready to plant into soil |
During this time it will grow and it should flower, mostly the flowers abort as the night temperatures are too low. I grow them outside under the verandah against the mud brick where they get sun and warmth but no frost, if you live somewhere colder you could grow them inside near a window for light. They need sunlight or they will become sick and attacked by insects.
This is the same cutting on the left, the second cutting was put in the water when the first picture was taken |
This process of taking cuttings to overwinter can be continued indefinitely, each time you take a cutting you are restarting the clock and the plant will not die of old age. If you have found a good F1 hybrid that you like and can not save seed from you do not need to buy new plants each year as you can simply take a cutting and overwinter the same plant. You no longer need to waste money on 'perennial tomato' seeds, just look for a good indeterminate variety as they are perennial.
Far too easy, you now have perennial tomato plants even if you live in a frosty climate. I sell some heirloom tomato seeds on my for sale page. Many of these are indeterminate and can easily be over wintered, if you are interested please have a look.
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Edit to add:
I have grown tomatoes and overwintered them too many times to remember. I am now wondering if in cold climates in small backyards if it is worth while growing them as perennials.
Tomatoes grow so easily from seed and the space that they need over winter may be better used by something else that can not be grown from seed. Overwintered tomatoes do fruit about 2 months earlier than seed grown, which is great, but space is so limiting now we live in town.
I also have a few super early determinate varieties such as 'igloo' that will grow, fruit, and die before most other varieties start to ripen. This means I can grow all from seed, have early tomatoes from 'igloo' and late tomatoes from other varieties and not have to protect anything over winter.
You can grow tomatoes as perennials? Cool.
ReplyDeleteVery informative, Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI'm confused about one statement. As a very seasons gardener and garden writer, "indeterminate" tomato plants *do* grow tall and *do* require staking. There may be one exception out there, but I have yet to run into it.
ReplyDeleteSo, I'm wondering why you said, "Some places claim that indeterminate tomatoes are tall and require staking, this is not always the case, please ignore anyone who makes such claims and stop buying seeds from them."
Thank you!
Hi Suburban Farmer,
ReplyDeleteThanks for dropping by. You are exactly the kind of person who needs to read this post. No need to be confused, let me explain.
As a seasoned gardener I will assume that you understand the terms ‘determinate’, ‘indeterminate’ ‘dwarf’ etc. which makes answering you much easier. I should write another post describing these terms to people who are newer to gardening.
While it may be true to say that *many* indeterminate tomatoes are tall and require staking it is incorrect to conclude that they all are. It also may be true to say that you have never seen or heard of anything any indeterminate short internode tomatoes, that is partly because those dodgy seed sellers who feed you incorrect information. In the same way *many* tomatoes have fruit that is red and round, yet it would be absurd to extrapolate that to claim that they *all* are. I remember when I was younger having a seasoned gardener who had grown tomatoes since before I was born try to tell me that ALL tomatoes are red and round simply because he had never seen anything else. I didn’t have the heart to tell him the truth.
Back to your question, there are an increasing number of varieties of tomatoes available to home gardeners that are indeterminate as well as being short and bushy. Some indeterminate tomato plants are dwarf, many of them actually grow shorter plants than some of the determinate so called ‘non-staking’ plants. If they are shorter and more sturdy than a ‘non-staking’ tomato then surely they are also considered ‘non-staking’ varieties even though they are indeterminate.
Being indeterminate dwarves means that they take up little room, do not require staking, yet unlike determinates they fruit over a long season. These indeterminate dwarves can even be grown as perennials if protected from frosts. As I am sure you know, the indeterminate trait has little to do with the height of the plant.
As I am sure that you can appreciate the ‘determinate dwarf’ and ‘indeterminate dwarf’ are suited to very different applications even though they are smaller plants. Determinate tomato plants tend to fruit over a restricted season, making them well suited to preserving their fruit. An indeterminate dwarf is great for small spaces and extended harvest time. Arbitrarily making the staking vs non-staking division creates more harm than good, it is far better to use the terms indeterminate and determinate.
Over the years I have grown a bunch of these dwarf indeterminate tomatoes, mostly un-named or un-stable varieties. I don’t know where you are located, but the Dwarf Tomato Project is located in Northern and Southern hemisphere and lists a growing number of indeterminate dwarf tomato seeds for sale. You should grow one.
So no need to be confused, not all indeterminate tomatoes grow tall and require staking. While many do, many others don’t.
ReplyDeleteYou ask why I claim that you should not buy from dodgy seed sellers who call indeterminate “staking” and determinate “non-staking”. As you can see, these fraudsters are not providing customers with the correct information. Perhaps they do not understand the basics of tomato genetics/biology, or maybe it is something else. Don’t waste your time with them.
If they can not give you the right information you should take your business to someone who will. When they do not care enough, or are too lazy, to bother looking up anything what assurance does that give you that they will be able to answer anything properly or be able to give you the right advice about anything else? It took me less than a minute to find this non-exhaustive list of indeterminate dwarf tomatoes on the internet:
Beefy Boy
Better Bush Improved
Dwarf Beryl Beauty
Dwarf Champion
Dwarf Champion 15
Dwarf Champion Improved
Dwarf Emerald Giant
Dwarf Mr. Snow
Dwarf Recessive
Dwarf Stone, Livingston's
Dwarf Jade Beauty
Dwarf Wild Fred
Golden Dwarf Champion
Husky Cherry Gold
Husky Cherry Red
Husky Gold
Husky Pink
Husky Red
Lime Green Salad
New Big Dwarf
Orange Tree
Perth Pride
Polish Dwarf
Quarter Century
Quarter Century, Burpee's
Red House Free Standing
Rosella Purple
Russian Red
Summertime Gold
Summertime Green
Tasmanian Chocolate
Hope that helps.
After reading your comment I decided to do some internet research. You are quite right, there are some short indeterminate tomatoes. What fun!
ReplyDeleteHi Sarah, yes I discovered a Husky Cheery Red which is an inderterminate tomato that grows a 4 feet bush that fruits all summer. I'm thinking of getting another one for a pot to bring inside😄I'm sure there are others but that's what I found in the store.
DeleteYes, made me sit up and listen too, because I was looking for a perennial plant to grow in a pot -- or at least last a full year, and the dwarf indeterminate is the go. Thanks. I have just retired onto our land at Clunes, Northern Rivers nsw, doing similar to you I guess. I have a Farmers Mart stall and thought a tomato in pots, something that lasts for a while for the customer would be good. The seed supplier just didn't have anything, only hybrid determinates. If you have seeds for one you think would be good, let me know and happy to pay ashleybehere@outlook.com
ReplyDeleteHi Ashley,
DeleteI will send you an email later, but for anyone else I have a page of seed sellers http://living-mudflower.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/seed-sellers.html
I could also probably sell you some seeds but many of them are un-named and not overly stable varieites. To be honest you may be better off looking at the Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project's page: http://dwarftomatoproject.net/Releases-SH.php
They have a good variety of recently bred dwarf tomatoes, a mix of determinate and indeterminate varieties. I highly recommend them.
What happens if you graft an indeterminate tomato onto a perennial rootstock e.g. kangaroo apple?
ReplyDeleteHi Fay,
DeleteI am not sure I fully understand your question.
Are you asking if you graft an indeterminate tomato onto a kangaroo apple if it would gain some degree of cold hardiness? If so, then I am not sure but I would love to know the answer. I may have to do some research into this.
Or are you asking if you could continue to grow the tomato scion on kangaroo apple rootstock for many years? I have never done this graft but I am assuming that the grafted plant should grow for many years if protected from frosts.
Thanks for the very helpful post! Highly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteIndeterminate
ReplyDelete